but right now a lot of us use gmail, and all of our mail is stored on a server at google. so it's just interesting that we as a society have given our information out. whether we want it to be for everyone or just for a few people, it's out there, you know, on someone's server, and so people can get to it. and that's sort of changed the well -- whole way of privacy in this age. >> host: so are you finding as a security consultant that the social medias of the world, the facebooks, the twitters, etc., that they are leading in security precautions or not? >> guest: well, some of them certainly are. google makes a show, for sure, for having a pretty secure web browser in chrome, but right now, not too long ago they were attacked by they think the chinese, and they were able to get in their networks and steal a lot of data. and so even the best get hit. another example is microsoft. about ten years ago, they started a program to try to produce secure software. so back when windows 98 was out, it was really awful. but now the newest version of windows is quite good. so they've